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So, this is a simple set of related philosophical/political questions, that (to me) distills down the essence of all the major debates bouncing around in US politics.
If someone can't afford to stay competitive, why do they deserve to compete?
If someone can't afford to keep working, why do they deserve to work?
If someone can't afford to stay healthy, why do they deserve health?
If someone can't afford to stay alive, why do they deserve to live?
You get what you pay for. If you can't afford to pay, well... I suppose it's polite to pretend that it was nice knowing you, but you aren't much use anymore, are you?
And if you disagree with all of the above statements, great! Politics takes money. If someone can't afford a lobbyist or a campaign, why do they deserve to have an opinion?
all 13 comments
[–]kgyre 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
Because they're still people.
[–]ialdabaoth[S] -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
Can you explain why that matters? Because it seems clear that to a lot of people, it doesn't.
[–]MuchDance1996 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
Were not all born with the basics, some people are born into Millions, Billions even, and they by default will be rich and have everything they will ever need. Most of us on the otherhand are born into the middle-lower class, it should be the governments job to keep the people happy, healthy, and with access to employment. Infact they should fear a people without those things, that's how revolutions happen.
[–]ialdabaoth[S] -2 points-1 points0 points  (1 child)
Why should it be the government's job to do these things, though?
And at this point, can't the rich just fly somewhere where they don't have to worry about these things, and leave the rest of us to rot?
[–]MuchDance1996 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Your clearly a republican and me and you will never agree, as a socialist i believe the government should do alot for the people who cant do it for themselves.
[–]eldayvo 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
“
If someone can't afford to stay competitive, why do they deserve to compete?
I am not sure what you are trying to get at here. What costs do you see in staying "competitive?"
“
If someone can't afford to keep working, why do they deserve to work?
Why should we stop anybody who is able bodied from being able to work? We all gain when more people are contribute to the GDP.
“
If someone can't afford to stay healthy, why do they deserve health?
Because most people, except for the exceptionally wealthy, can afford to spend a few days in the hospital if they get sick. Depending on the treatment(s), cancer can cost tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Who has that available in cash?
“
If someone can't afford to stay alive, why do they deserve to live?
Because the Declaration of Independence guarantees us certain inalienable rights, like the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If somebody cannot afford the antibiotic for an infection, should we let the bacteria slowly ravage their system until it develops into sepsis and they die because they have not had the advantages in life that a middle/upper class American has had?
Everybody deserves an opinion, we operate under universal suffrage (one person, one vote). A banker's opinion should matter just as much as my own. If we only enact legislation that those who can afford it can purchase, they will enact legislation that helps them and hurts the rest of us.
“
In 2005, an average Chief Executive Officer (CEO) was paid 821 times as much as a minimum wage earner, who earns just $5.15 per hour. An average CEO earns more before lunchtime on the very first day of work in the year than a minimum wage worker earns all year. Source
[–]ialdabaoth[S] -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
“
Because most people, except for the exceptionally wealthy, can afford to spend a few days in the hospital if they get sick. Depending on the treatment(s), cancer can cost tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Who has that available in cash?
So why not let them die?
“
If somebody cannot afford the antibiotic for an infection, should we let the bacteria slowly ravage their system until it develops into sepsis and they die because they have not had the advantages in life that a middle/upper class American has had?
In a lot of cases, we do. Are you saying we shouldn't? If so, why should we change?
“
If we only enact legislation that those who can afford it can purchase, they will enact legislation that helps them and hurts the rest of us.
Which is exactly what they're doing. Why should they stop?
[–]eldayvo 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Why not let them die? Because as children, lots of us would be dead from vaccine preventable disease/treatment , we would move ourselves 100 years in the past (or many developing nations) when people had 10 children but only 2 survived.
I would argue that we don't let them die all that much. We all fund city/county hospitals which offer free, or relatively free, healthcare to anybody who is willing to wait the hours (which is an abomination) before being seen. For those who have insurance, those who don't get sick often are subsidizing those who get sick more often than average. And anybody who has paid their hospital bill is subsidizing those who do not pay their bill.
They should not stop, necessarily (as we all should be able to lobby the government for our benefit), but we should all fighting for our right to have legislation enacted in our best interest. What needs to happen is campaign finance reform and election reform to prevent the wealthy and corporations from unfairly changing the direction of the country. No system of government is perfect, there will always be people who do not like it or object to legislation or SCOTUS decisions, but there is much we can do to make the system fairer to all citizens. We all benefit from an educated populace, we all should benefit from a productive nation, but when there is such an unequal distribution of resources as there is now, those of us who are losing out need to lobby the government on our behalf. I see politicians who are more concerned about their next reelection, where they will work post-government service, how legislation benefits only their friends in big corporations than about doing what benefits all of their constituents.
[–]Mongolor 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
I find your questions disturbing.
“
If someone can't afford to stay alive, why do they deserve to live
Really? Financial Darwinism is your point?
You sir (or madam) are a psychopath.
[–]kgyre 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I think the term would be "sociopath", anyway. No one's advocating going out and actively killing anyone.
[–]ialdabaoth[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Actually, I'm not on the end of that point that you think I am.
[–]CatalyticDragon 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
That is the wrong question, or maybe it just speaks volumes about you. Does somebody deserve to be helped when they are in trouble is what you are asking. And if you need to ask that before you help somebody then there is perhaps something wrong with you, not the people in need. Life is a luck of the draw and money (which I'll stress is without intrinsic use value) does not confer worth or value on the holder. But if I need to explain this to you then it's likely you are either a massive troll or perhaps mentally defective.
[–]spaceghoti Colorado 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Good question. Are you interested in the answer, or are you just ranting?
From Roosevelt's Economic Bill of Rights (emphasis mine):
“
It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.
This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.
As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.
We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.
The rest of his speech is in the link.
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